tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post359006220783276547..comments2024-03-27T08:49:38.786-03:00Comments on Siskoid's Blog of Geekery: Babylon 5 #90: In the BeginningSiskoidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-3414472613826483072018-09-02T06:57:37.713-03:002018-09-02T06:57:37.713-03:00Y'know, comments like "no government offi...Y'know, comments like "no government official would ever be that stupid" feel very different when said in 2018 rather than 2015...LiamKavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01996095233681105682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-4861417706225829692015-08-20T17:15:31.593-03:002015-08-20T17:15:31.593-03:00The gun ports thing is weird. Even aside from the ...The gun ports thing is weird. Even aside from the HUGE number of misunderstandings it must cause, Dukat's reaction makes no sense. When told the gun ports are open he doens't say "of course they are. That's what we always do. Why are you telling me?" He says "What!?", as if it's a completely stupid thing to do. You can't have it both ways, JMS. Either it's something that their race does, or it isn't. If it's something Dukat personally objects to, then he should have given that order the moment he started planning on bumping into humans.<br /><br />As for the Earth official's stupidity in talking to Londo. I can just about buy it in this case. Earth had apparently just won a war and was the toast of the galaxy. If there was ever a time for them to be stupidly arrogant, it was then.LiamKavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01996095233681105682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-41236817176742506112015-08-18T06:18:32.659-03:002015-08-18T06:18:32.659-03:00Like many Babylon 5 episodes (not the top third or...Like many Babylon 5 episodes (not the top third or so though) I enjoy this, but more so if I don't let myself think too much or question that actions/motives of the characters (or the writer *ahem*) and really liked the additional insight and viewpoints on the war from different races through our familiar characters, or others (I'm a big fan of political sci fi). I like having a more complete feel of the war in general, and the epic apopcolyptic feel of it. <br /><br />What I don't like especially if letting myself think and analyze is how once again the hand of the writer is too visible in how JMS makes certain characters who played a key hand in creating these events just be too stupid and simple minded in just the right way (or characters who are normally intelligent who don't take obvious actions or take obviously wrong actions in a sort of mysterious way on the parts of the characters and JMS- kind of in a "I'm being kinda mysterious about it/the scene so let it slide by without asking questions" way or at the worst in a Wizard of Oz type way where JMS is the man behind the curtain and the obvious oversights/lack of explanations for them are the evidence that the wizard is a sham is what makes you want to look behind the curtain- seeing the writers hand and will to set a situation up as the only reason why the characters do that, and actually looking behind the curtain is to ask JMS about it which pisses him off in his way of seeking to have an odd emotional desire about these things to just want us to accept those scenes and see them like he does in his mind (where maybe they make sense since he knows everything about the B5 universe), so in asking you get effectively yelled at by an angry JMS who stubbornly wants to believe that people only question these obvious gaps in the show's reasoning to "troll him" or try to be clever. to allow the situation he wants to be created with a complete lack of subtlety or debtes where either side has significant merits.<br /><br />Ducat telling nobody about the importance of the humans as relayed to him by the Vorlons/and the presence of the Vorlons themselves (even just the grey council) comes with no further explanation of why and as complete idiocy, actually more like insanity given the stake and circumstances: For one thing upon hearing that he should have used Mimbari intelligence networks/diplomatic contacts to obtain the ability to communicate with humans (and even clandestinely have a translation program installed on the ship that nobody would know is there until they receive messages in human languages and hmm look at that or computer is translating them!). Or just make an excuse to obtain diplomatic relations and establish an embassy through an exchange of favors/money with the Centari or Narns to get formally introduced (especially given the humans expansionism and exploration programs). At the very least when Delen says they are human ships give an immediate order to NOT open gun ports (in fact given his response to hearing they were open you would think he would have given a general order to not open them in first contact situations to the whole fleet) and to hail them. Another major issue like this was the Earth official's attitude and stupidity in their talk with Londo. I can honestly say I don't even believe our American officials would be that obtuse and arrogant, and that's saying a lot.<br /><br />Briannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-67394211109678758022015-03-13T19:05:07.485-03:002015-03-13T19:05:07.485-03:00I've just watched this after a finishing the s...I've just watched this after a finishing the show a couple of months ago, and I'm sticking to my opinion... watched in the middle of a daily run, it doesn't quite work. There's too many repetitions of what we know. Watched in isolation... I think it's really really good.<br /><br />Regarding spoilers... unless you're the sort who ruthlessly researches everything, I don't think it does. I watched the show with a friend many many years ago, and we started with ItB. By the time we got to season 2 he was surprised by Delenn's transformation, and had completely forgotten that she appeared like that in ItB. Probably because when she first appears we have no idea who she is, and when she then reappears twenty minutes later most will have forgotten. For the final shot of her set in the future, she's in darkness so it's not obvious (if you don't already know) that she has hair.<br /><br />Likewise, the Londo says "Sheridan became the leader of a great alliance", but it's dropped right at the end. When we started watching the show my friend had forgotten about Sheridan until the beginning of season 2, where he suddenly went "oh, yeah, him!". I don't think ItB actually spoils that much unless you sit there and take notes, because there's so much to take in you're bound to forget it by the time you get to the show itself.<br /><br />There's an interesting editing trick during the Battle of the Line. When we see the flashback at the start of season 2, there's a shot where Delenn turns to look at another Grey Council member whilst an Earth ship explodes behind her. It's a great shot, and in the episode it gives the impression of the Grey Council being above everything... they are in the battle, but not actually involved. There hands are clean. Here, the same footage comes across completely differently. Delenn expression now looks like she's accusing the Grey Council of allowing this to happen. Her look seems to say "this death is on your, on all our hands". There's some slight issues where her dialogue taken from that episode sounds a bit distant compared to how she sounds in the new footage, but overall it holds up remarkably well.<br /><br />Peter David's novelisation is good, although he has Sheridan react very angrily to the President's speech, thinking it should be more inspiring rather than realistic. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be Sheridan's opinion or PAD's opinion...<br /><br />And to repeat my previous point, I'd put the montage of the war as one of my top 5 B5 momoments. Londo's speech, the music, the SFX... all amazing.LiamKavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01996095233681105682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-76979620145169020682014-10-07T17:51:08.658-03:002014-10-07T17:51:08.658-03:00Actually, Ryan, In The Beginning is at the end of ...Actually, Ryan, In The Beginning is at the end of Volume 14 of the script books. The other TV movies are in a separate book.<br /><br />Not a whole lot beyond the obvious in his intro, though. He talks about money issues driving the choice of the plot, since they had sets from the Earth Civil War still standing, along with the Centauri and Minbari sets saving them money, and also about how Michael Vejar used a crane and a solid set to get the claustrophobic weightlessness in the Prometheus.DustManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04282550826824228188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-66968533662226928702014-10-06T14:01:03.249-03:002014-10-06T14:01:03.249-03:00I think this suffers more than most by the "w...I think this suffers more than most by the "watching an episode a day" thing. It recaps bits and pieces we've seen in the past month, or two months. When it aired, as (I believe) a standalone between seasons, reminding you of events that happened several years ago, it fares far better. Not essential because, as you say, we knew all this stuff, but a great way of refreshing your memory.<br /><br />Plus, I'd say it's almost worth it just for Londo's speech about humanity and the underlying montage. The presidents speech is pretty great too, and they do integrate the old scenes and new really well. I love the bit where the "Battle of the Line" music has a big crash sound timed to the shot of Delenn casually turning her head while an explosion plays on the screen behind her (which I think is from "Revelations").LiamKavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01996095233681105682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-24094170294918507572014-10-05T15:21:30.093-03:002014-10-05T15:21:30.093-03:00Oh, yes, the nursemaid. She's also Lord Refa&#...Oh, yes, the nursemaid. She's also Lord Refa's daughter, and would later marry Emperor Vir.<br /><br />For the Babylon stations, since the first three were sabotaged before being finished, there was both the drive to not let terrorism win, and there were signifigant amounts of material left over that was reused for the next station. Even B4 was built with what was still usable from after B3's destruction. B4, on the other hand, was completed and so there was nothing left over once it vanished to the past, so the project was actually cancelled at that point, before the Minbari stepped in. The original idea was that B1-4 would all look the same, with only B5 being different, but that obviously changed sometime before this movie, since B1 looks different to both B5 and closer to B5.Cradoknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-27013738908110846642014-10-05T13:16:19.466-03:002014-10-05T13:16:19.466-03:00This movie also showed the construction of Babylon...This movie also showed the construction of Babylon 1. The one thing that never makes sense is that the first 3 stations are destroyed by terrorists before B4 is built. I can see starting with B2 but I can't see them going on after that. It probably would have been better if the Babylon Station name was used previously and started with B4. Thought this was the best time to say itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-89548606988686832652014-10-05T12:50:02.858-03:002014-10-05T12:50:02.858-03:00I don't have much to say about the movies, as ...I don't have much to say about the movies, as they weren't included in the script volumes. Though I will note that the French-accented nursemaid from the framing story is a major character in the Centauri Prime novel trilogy by Peter David, where it's revealed she's a street ruffian who attacked Londo after he became emperor for the destruction he'd brought to Centauri Prime. Londo talked her down and gave her the job in the palace, where she took Vir's place as the angel on his shoulder. Also, her accent is described as "Northern."<br /><br />The commentary's also worth a listen, though it includes one bit that's quite uncomfortable now that we know the truth, where JMS dances around why Michael O'Hare wasn't able to film any new material.Ryan Lohnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-22934622504099673112014-10-05T11:49:47.090-03:002014-10-05T11:49:47.090-03:00Jerry Doyle isn't in this - or Thirdspace - be...Jerry Doyle isn't in this - or Thirdspace - because of 'bad advice from his agent'. As you say, though, it works here because otherwise they'd have to have wedged him in somewhere, and it'd probably have been awkward. It works out well for Thirdspace too, because that takes place after he's resigned.<br /><br />As a whole, In The Beginning does tie together all the various tiny bits and pieces about the war from four years of TV very well, in a mostly exciting package. I was never a fan of the peace deal bit with G'Kar. What I did like was everything Peter Jurasik does. 'That' speech is possibly the best thing he does in the whole show.<br /><br />The kids were supposed to be part of Urza Jaddo's family, he of the suicide by ritual combat back in 'Knives'.Cradoknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-92091055352893745132014-10-05T11:31:37.571-03:002014-10-05T11:31:37.571-03:00I don't think it works as a catch-up either......I don't think it works as a catch-up either... For one thing, the Ivanova sequences remain pointless because the character has been shuffled off the show. And while it recaps all the old backstory, is it really information we need going into Season 5? Seems like most of the pay-offs have already been had.Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-35415754751932635052014-10-05T11:16:00.865-03:002014-10-05T11:16:00.865-03:00IIRC, it exists as a catch up episode for new view...IIRC, it exists as a catch up episode for new viewer after B5 switched to a different channel for season 5. That's why it seems pointless if you've seen the first 4 seasons already.Coreworlderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09960309718670147809noreply@blogger.com