tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post4520923693740999541..comments2024-03-27T08:49:38.786-03:00Comments on Siskoid's Blog of Geekery: Babylon 5 #54: Point of No ReturnSiskoidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-50454864845724365682014-09-01T21:45:32.122-03:002014-09-01T21:45:32.122-03:00I had just got onto the internet around this time,...I had just got onto the internet around this time, and was on a couple of Star Trek message boards. Generally, the fans there were fine about it. They were smaller, more personal message boards, so maybe the arseholes just didn't frequent. Still, I'm fairly certain that while they existed, JMS would also reference them every chance he could. It helped create a siege mentality, and as certain Chelsea football club managers have shown, a siege mentality can do wonders. Convince your staff and fans that the Trek people hate them, and you've got a motivated production company and a fanbase that will shout your show to the heavens. JMS was as guilty of feeding the trolls as anyone.<br /><br />One tech detail in this show I like: when Sheridan is scanning through the general's message, it actually fast forwards and rewinds like modern digital players, rather than having scan lines like he's going through a VHS tape. We still have screens that go to snow when the signal goes, but it's nice that this time someone realised that signals would probably be sent digitally.<br /><br />In many ways, this is actually my favourite story of this 3-part mini-arc. Garibaldi gets to do some of his best acting when he's ranting furiously at his traitorous staff, and I've always loved Zack's arc as the guy who's stuck in the middle because he doesn't have enough information to know who's telling him the truth.<br /><br />G'Kar is rocking some pretty extreme heals. I never noticed until this episode. I always thought Katsulas was just really tall.LiamKavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01996095233681105682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-45636180540605665322014-09-01T18:04:47.856-03:002014-09-01T18:04:47.856-03:00Having been a B5 fandom member while the show was ...Having been a B5 fandom member while the show was being broadcast, I can say that some of the fandom was just as nasty about DS9 and all Trek, declaring that all Trek was a dumb utopian show where no actions ever had consequences and all episodes ended with a massive plot reset. Sometimes you'd get flamed just for saying something positive about a single Trek ep.LondonKdShttp://londonkds.dreamwidth.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-83564915449538674912014-08-30T13:14:25.311-03:002014-08-30T13:14:25.311-03:00Anon: Like OTL says (swooped in just as I was abou...Anon: Like OTL says (swooped in just as I was about to respond), we've enough Senators telling Sinclair and Sheridan what's what that it always did seem like the station had, at the very least, civilian oversight, probably because of its diplomatic mission. The "loopholing" was a matter of figuring out just who had issued the orders, so that he could say the equivalent of "nope, sorry, your supervisor is going to have to contact me or I won't do it". <br /><br />Anon: I agree with you on the comparison between B5 and DS9, similarities between which are mostly due to the same premise - which doesn't make out derivative of the other necessarily - and to the realities of making television SF in the 90s, progressive though B5 was (same actors, same sociopolitical climate inspiring the writing, etc.)<br /><br />Ryan: Not only was I a Trekkie, but I'm a Whovian, and there's no fandom more divisive and vitriolic than that. As with anything, find like-minded people and make them your friends. Who needs fandom to be a negative experience? That's just ridiculous.Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-74232978378349484522014-08-30T13:06:30.686-03:002014-08-30T13:06:30.686-03:00To be fair, the military does actually take orders...To be fair, the military does actually take orders from non-military officials (at least in the US), it's just that they don't take orders from just any non-military official. Both the office of the President and Secretary of Defense are civilian positions; military personnel can fill either position, but it's not a requirement. But other government positions (Vice President, members of Congress, cabinet secretaries, etc.) have no direct authorization over military personnel. (Even in this episode, they say it's just a delaying tactic. The orders may not have been sent via the proper chain of command, but Sheridan says outright that they'll just bump the orders up the chain of command until someone who does have the authority to issue them (even if it's President Clark) does so, and then they're in the same boat as they were in before. But the next few episodes will take care of that, so...)Green Luthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11808312988625889127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-80637295928522166072014-08-30T12:09:24.766-03:002014-08-30T12:09:24.766-03:00Oh yeah, that's what the "loophole" ...Oh yeah, that's what the "loophole" was; thanks! That's why it didn't seem at all clever to me: because OF COURSE the military doesn't take orders from non-military officials. It would be like the night manager of a McDonald's telling a policeman to turn in his badge.<br /><br />B5 and DS9 are so dissimilar that I don't see why anyone sees either as the ripoff of the other. We've already covered the one genuinely suspicious similarity between the two (Vorlons and Founders have genetically manipulated other races into seeing them as deities), but as for the rest, space stations are nothing new in science fiction, and B5 and DS9 are similar mostly in terms of using the tropes inherent to the setting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-80363082718504697892014-08-30T11:48:15.511-03:002014-08-30T11:48:15.511-03:00It actually wasn't Hague (for reasons that wil...It actually wasn't Hague (for reasons that will be clear next time) but another general, who told Sheridan to respect the chain of command, causing him to realize that the civilian Ministry of Peace couldn't give such an order to the military.<br /><br />Let me preface this by saying that I've met many great Trek fans during the course of my watching the series (in a giant year-long Netflix binge several years ago). They were perfectly kind and sweet, putting up with all my questions and never making me feel like some idiot horning in on their table like they easily could have. So I definitely accept that these people do exist. Unfortunately, there's also a pretty nasty and vocal segment of the Trek fandom who are incredibly elitist about the show and were outraged at B5 for daring to be a science fiction show that said the Communist sex utopia forseen by Gene Roddenberry might not actually happen, with the most common statement being that it was ripping off Deep Space 9 (when if anything it was the other way around, with B5 being pitched for five years beforehand, but I'll give them the slightest benefit of the doubt on not knowing that). They've quieted down a bit with the lack of regular new Trek to talk about, but their successors can be seen in the more militant fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, to the point where I'm pretty sure there's a good deal of overlap.<br /><br />This attitude was largely not shared by the people actually involved in Trek, and one of the biggest supporters of B5 among them was Majel Barrett, who would take every opportunity to tell Trek fans at conventions that they should give the show a chance. The sadly inevitable result on this was those same fans turning their bile on her and calling her a traitor, whatever that means in this context, but JMS was quite touched and asked her to have dinner with him, during which he sprang on her that he would like her to be on the show. She jumped at the chance, and was utterly lovely to work with by all reports.<br /><br />Much like The Coming of Shadows, what happens in this episode is mostly setup for later events, but it still stands on its own because we care so much about the characters and the story that's been built up. That's where the real magic lies, and what truly made it stand out. DS9 may have been the boldest Trek series with its own long term plot arcs (and I'm quite a fan of it myself), but it couldn't hope to touch the likes of this.Ryan Lohnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-2600181388941435782014-08-30T11:17:55.216-03:002014-08-30T11:17:55.216-03:00That photo. Ta'lon: "She'll never fi...That photo. Ta'lon: "She'll never figure out I'm the one who farted!"<br /><br />It's been a long time, what was it Hague said to Sheridan that was later used as the basis for the loophole? The problem I have with these loopholes is that they're too often intended to be surprising and clever, but they usually come off as perfectly obvious (at least to me). There are plenty of times JMS springs a surprise that's a genuine surprise, and I fully admit to my jaw hanging open at some of them. Not this one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com