tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post7436506208410562442..comments2024-03-27T08:49:38.786-03:00Comments on Siskoid's Blog of Geekery: Doctor Who #959: Death in HeavenSiskoidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-39734818224698529732014-12-11T19:37:21.200-04:002014-12-11T19:37:21.200-04:00No worries about CyberBrig reappearing. Whenever h...No worries about CyberBrig reappearing. Whenever he's needed, he'll just somehow be stuck in Peru...<br /><br />I like the theory about the Cybermen here and Nightmare in Silver. Since that episode takes place so far in the future, I can certainly see the Matrix Cybermen's (to differentiate from the Mondas Cybermen and the Cybus Cybermen) involvement actually explain away a lot of the "Borg" problems in Gaiman's script!<br /><br />-BrianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-18830932727781147302014-12-04T20:19:59.449-04:002014-12-04T20:19:59.449-04:00No, I was wondering if the Osgood who got disinteg...No, I was wondering if the Osgood who got disintegrated was in fact a Zygon.<br /><br />Though I guess I could still settle for the Doctor traveling with a Zygon who had become so familiar with Osgood as to essentially be her.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-20759686806498879692014-12-04T18:16:51.159-04:002014-12-04T18:16:51.159-04:00Yes.
Is this a vaporization joke?Yes.<br /><br />Is this a vaporization joke?Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-68406459953013620332014-12-04T18:14:19.637-04:002014-12-04T18:14:19.637-04:00... hey, did Osgood have her inhaler?... hey, did Osgood have her inhaler?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-18384305473361246862014-11-30T16:26:52.285-04:002014-11-30T16:26:52.285-04:00Okay, attempting to sound a bit less sociopathic, ...Okay, attempting to sound a bit less sociopathic, it's not that I don't think that Danny shouldn't be traumatised by what he did, and that it wouldn't affect him for the rest of his life, nor did I think that he'd purposefully done something terrible and later came to regret it, I just expected it to be as the result of a poor choice, rather than something that happened as what I see as a result of doing something properly. Or something.Cradoknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-74572403604095607402014-11-30T10:07:27.496-04:002014-11-30T10:07:27.496-04:00I think killing a child is plenty to make Danny fe...I think killing a child is plenty to make Danny feel guilty for the rest of his life. They weren't hinting that it was anything more sinister or grandiose. Seems plenty to me.Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-10977024848007863892014-11-29T18:19:29.003-04:002014-11-29T18:19:29.003-04:00"Danny's big crime... wasn't really a..."Danny's big crime... wasn't really all that terrible. Yes, he killed a child (teenager?), and there's no reason for him to not have PTSD because of that, but I was expecting something more."<br /><br />I'm glad the crime was what it was, a mistake rather than an act of cruelty or callousness. I like my Danny Pink as a good man who never wanted to hurt an innocent, and is remorseful that he did.<br /><br />I was going to type a thing about how the Mistress's plot made no sense, but every time I started typing, I kept coming up with more and more points that made zero sense. So ultimately we have to chalk this up to yet another Master scheme that, given enough time, blows up in his face. It's a tradition. That said, I don't think we were given the full story on how many "souls" Missy collected, how many bodies were Cybermannable, or the connections between the two. (Not sure how a Cyber robot shell benefits from incorporating a body with a missing or damaged brain, but again, the Master.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-50798394085605151862014-11-29T09:42:45.136-04:002014-11-29T09:42:45.136-04:00Wow, I'm really out-of-tune with all of you th...Wow, I'm really out-of-tune with all of you this season. With the exceptions of Mummy and Flatline, this whole season was average at best, and Kill the Moon at worst. Or possibly this at worst. A confused mix of ideas which never get fully developed before moving off to the next, which even retroactively makes previous episodes worse.<br /><br />Missy's plan, okay, I'll buy it, even the incomprehensibly unpredictable Clara part of it. But what was the point, then, of all the scenes earlier? Why the dark water, what was that about? Why was the police officer rejected but Gretchin got to go to the garden, even though both were vaporised? What was the garden anyway? And what about every other character we ever see, are they all Cybermen now too? Amy and Rory? What about characters who haven't 'died' yet, like Donna? Did Missy snatch her from the future and shove her into some unrelated corpse? And that goes for anyone we've yet to even see. The Doctor goes back to the 20's, saves a whole bunch of people from some monster, yay! But! They're all going to die and become Cybermen. It's a pretty depressing thought.<br /><br />Osgood's death, yeah, echoes of the worst Whedon deaths. Spiteful and pointless.<br /><br />And then, there was Danny. Both hugely under-written and badly written. We see nothing to show why Clara loves him in Caretaker, and not much more before her declaration last episode. And at the same time, I'd always disliked his smug, passive-aggressive condescending righteousness - planting my flag fairly firmly, there - but this episode made me really <i>hate</i> him. His at-the-time funny model soldier thing in Caretaker that's now revealed as a pathological hatred for 'officers'. His reveling in horrifying the Doctor with an impossible choice. His turnaround from begging Clara to delete his emotions to sneering at the Doctor letting her, just so he can get another dig in.<br /><br />(As an aside that more properly belongs in the review for Dark Water, but I'm on a roll with this one: Danny's big crime... wasn't really all that terrible. Yes, he killed a child (teenager?), and there's no reason for him to not have PTSD because of that, but I was expecting something more. We see him taking fire, then grenading the building, then suppressing the room, and he happens to kill what we have to assume is an innocent. But that's the nature of that kind of asymmetric warfare, where innocents will die, and where you can't take innocence for granted anyway.)<br /><br />And then there's the end, where Danny sends the kid back. Character wise, it's fine, it fits with Danny's personality. But it's so sappy, and without any suggestion of being a thing before it happens that it just comes off as lame.<br /><br />The acting was generally excellent, though. I loved the UNIT ambush at the beginning, and the Brig was touching, even if it did feel disrespectful at the same time. The Doctor losing his temper and pounding the TARDIS console was great, as was the last five minutes between Clara. I really liked the mid-credit scene too, looking forward to Nick Frost at Christmas. Hope we see the Mistress again too, because let's face it, the Master's superpower is to not stay dead.Cradoknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-84296621103837827212014-11-29T01:24:33.568-04:002014-11-29T01:24:33.568-04:00"I'm not saying Osgood's death raised..."I'm not saying Osgood's death raised the tension any for me, but I do think I remember a "whoah!" in the living room from other viewers."<br /><br />Now that I think about it, I said "whoa!", because I was thinking on how Moffat had a surrogate fan as Anderson in season 3 and the whole Sherlock club. The club itself was a mocking, albeit funny, jab at the Sherlock fandom. <br /><br />Osgood is basically the same thing, but then they straight up kill her! Like whoa, what does that mean?! Moffat seems to have a weird relationship to his fanbases.Martin Légerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02823590081222080265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-8670566323994687652014-11-29T00:36:39.120-04:002014-11-29T00:36:39.120-04:00Loved this episode, loved the Brigadier moment, bu...Loved this episode, loved the Brigadier moment, but agree that it should remain a moment.<br /><br />The main turn-off from this episode was how Missy went a little too Ainley (The puffy shoulders should have been a clue) in the last act. Spending the entire season building her up as a master planner, then having her dance around acting "bananas" in the last scene while the other characters did their business was kind of weak.F. Douglas Wallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06497140550892192807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-68660487114015721432014-11-28T21:09:22.620-04:002014-11-28T21:09:22.620-04:00Insert your politics here.Insert your politics here.Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-86370793028975790812014-11-28T21:02:18.003-04:002014-11-28T21:02:18.003-04:00Any thoughts on the line about the Master not bein...Any thoughts on the line about the Master not being the worst Prime Minister they've ever had? A reference to Brian Green, I imagine.Toby'chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01298458468488781568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-80244056497316870722014-11-28T15:13:15.227-04:002014-11-28T15:13:15.227-04:00"I can't even believe that level of sexis...<i>"I can't even believe that level of sexism still exists in our culture. By which I means science fiction fans. Do ppl learn nothing from the heroes so call themselves fans of?"</i><br /><br />Considering that the WHOLE POINT of Star Trek was, essentially, tolerance and learning to get on with other people, it amazes me when you see a racist or homophobic Star Trek fan. I honestly knew one person back in the 90s who preferred Voyager to DS9 because he didn't like a black captain.<br /><br /><i>"Well, the show itself has just declared that a woman can't possibly be named Master..."</i><br /><br />I think that was partly to hide her identity, and partly a quirk of language. I mentioned the doctor/nurse thing to my wife, and she laughed at how stupid it was. I then mentioned that they'd changed the Masters name, and she didn't get why they could have left it the same. My wife is a qualified doctor (forensic pathologist, which is so much cooler than my job that I can't even speak at parties). She also has a masters degree. It took her a moment to get the connection.<br /><br />In English, when someone says "Doctor", then the first thought that comes into most peoples head if deprived of context would be "medical doctor". However, if a person hears "master", they are more likely to think of a "master/slave" relationship, or maybe someone who owns a pet. The qualification is much lower down. Besides, us fans KNOW that the name "The Master" was derived from "The Doctor" as a qualification, but whereas people with PhDs can be called "Doctors", no-one with a Master's degrees is ever referred to as a "Master". If they were, I would be walking in to work demanding to be called "The Bachelor", along with half the other staff.<br /><br />So, in short, they could call Missy "The Master", but it would sound weird, like when Kirk kept saying Mr Saavik in TWOK. On the other hand, female doctors are called doctors all the time. Half of all qualifying doctors in the UK are female, so for someone to think he'd have to be called "The Nurse" just shows him to be an outdated dinosaur. And not a cool dinosaur. One of the rubbish ones.LiamKavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01996095233681105682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-65672213598564247912014-11-28T12:08:04.632-04:002014-11-28T12:08:04.632-04:00More Ingrid Olivery goodness:
https://www.youtube...More Ingrid Olivery goodness:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtxK7wNUBPk<br /><br />All the characters in this clip have been on "Doctor Who" in the past two seasons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-59971686002539406312014-11-28T11:57:10.352-04:002014-11-28T11:57:10.352-04:00Ryan: I don't need to, I was reading comics in...Ryan: I don't need to, I was reading comics in the 90s.<br /><br />But Osgood never did anything for me, so I'm not going to miss her. Just too on the nose as a stand-in for fans. Meh.<br /><br />As for making Missy a killer, it's not like Osgood was her first one. In Dark Water, she killed Dr. Chang, whom she actually liked. But by killing Osgood off, a recurring character with I guess some fan attachment, it made Kate getting thrown out of the plane more believable. If Osgood can die, so can Kate. Simple as that. And it's how Whedon works too. By harming a "name" character, suddenly the threat to other name characters, normally safe because of that name (as opposed to one-off guests who die all the time), much more real.<br /><br />I'm not saying Osgood's death raised the tension any for me, but I do think I remember a "whoah!" in the living room from other viewers.Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-40388879806907633272014-11-28T11:50:00.613-04:002014-11-28T11:50:00.613-04:00If there is to be a woman Doctor, I nominate Ingri...If there is to be a woman Doctor, I nominate Ingrid Oliver. After all, a precedent has been set that faces come from somewhere ...<br /><br />"Moffat stated that he needed to convince the audience a woman could be evil"<br /><br />Right, because the whole Cybermen scheme was all about puppies and kittens. Give your viewers a little credit, Moffat!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-22975465495810187372014-11-28T11:38:28.434-04:002014-11-28T11:38:28.434-04:00"If the Doctor becomes a woman will he be cal..."If the Doctor becomes a woman will he be called the Nurse?" <br /><br />Well, the show itself has just declared that a woman can't possibly be named Master...<br /><br />What made the Brig scene work for me is that the Third Doctor's era was the one that Capaldi really loved as a kid, making this his equivalent of David Tennant getting to give Sarah Jane a proper goodbye.<br /><br />When he started going into "I am not a hero, or a monster, I am...", I was so sure he was going to say "the Doctor," making a cheap fanservice moment at the cost of not actually saying anything about the character. So thanks for not doing that, Moffat.<br /><br />On the other hand, the death of Osgood really killed a lot of this one for me. It's like Joss Whedon at his worst, killing off a good character with tons of potential just because he wanted to kill a character off and she was available. And it really didn't help when Moffat stated that he needed to convince the audience a woman could be evil. Damn, that is some deeply ingrained Madonna/Whore shit he must have in his head. Women in Refrigerators, look it up sometime.Ryan Lohnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-58717550027032271962014-11-28T11:04:26.583-04:002014-11-28T11:04:26.583-04:00Spare Parts. Oh god. New Who's biggest mistake...Spare Parts. Oh god. New Who's biggest mistake was failing to get Marc Platt to adapt his audio to be set on a parallel world instead of comissioning Tom McRae's mediocre "Rise of the Cybermen" two parter allegedly inspired by it.Madeleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-10562310486698290232014-11-28T09:53:48.763-04:002014-11-28T09:53:48.763-04:00My own personal Cyberman tear-up moment isn't ...My own personal Cyberman tear-up moment isn't on TV, but in the Big Finish audio Spare Parts. Heartbreaking.Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-85421308706357689262014-11-28T08:18:50.326-04:002014-11-28T08:18:50.326-04:00Never thought a Cyberman would make me burst into ...Never thought a Cyberman would make me burst into tears, on repeat viewings.<br /><br />110% fan of the Cyber-Brig here. Not that I want him to be zooming around the earth, just taking care of business with a little hat and a mustache -- as infinitely badass as that would be -- but beyond the echo back to all the times it was the Brigadier who saved the Doctor (often against the Master (I'm looking at you "The Five Doctors")), the Brigadier is the resolution to the Soldier vs. the Officer. Yes, the Brigadier had to make harsh calls on occasion -- and sometimes calls the Doctor found unforgivable, such as "The Silurians" -- but the Brig was never afraid to put himself at risk either. He was not elevated any higher than the men he commanded, beyond the duties of his rank.<br /><br />I don't feel it was a slight to Nicholas Courtney to repurpose the Brig in this fashion; I took it as a tribute to a character who was loyal to the Doctor until the very end, and even that wasn't enough to stop him.<br /><br />Here's the Brig saving the day in Nicholas Courtney's most recent appearance:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP6T1wcFwms<br /><br />Good ol' Brig. Earth's darkest day, and the Doctor's ... where else would he be?<br /><br />So the question comes up of why Danny and the Brig were the only Cybermen to not hit "Delete" (or, perhaps, they refused to stay "Deleted" -- Cyberman "Deletes" don't always take as well as intended, like with "Closing Time"). I bet they weren't the only ones, but there were too few "Undeleteds" to be immediately noticed. And it probably didn't hurt Danny's and the Brig's chances that they were relatively mentally prepared for weirdness, having dealt with the Doctor as they had. But in the Brigadier's case, I would bet that he never hit Delete, and was never even significantly tempted, because he was used to wrestling with his own conscience and coming to terms with his own actions.<br /><br />So, the Cyber-Brig's future? I don't know what the long-term prognosis of this wave of Cybermen is, but it's pretty clear they can't use him again in the show; there's no way for that to work without breaking the appeal of the moment. The fanfictiony part of my head figures that the Brigadier did a quick fly-around for a last look at beloved sites and people, and then flew off to a mountaintop to watch the sunrise as his batteries ran out. Nothing flashy, just letting the end come.<br /><br />I've talked a lot about the Brigadier, so let me just say that other stuff happened in this episode.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-39955529410450240852014-11-28T07:38:35.289-04:002014-11-28T07:38:35.289-04:00You guys go a long way redeeming the Brig's us...You guys go a long way redeeming the Brig's use in this episode. Now you've got ME tearing up. From COMMENTS.<br /><br />Jeff: I'm not too worried about the lack of explanation. I'm used to it with this character. And when explained (magic cauldron etc), it's more irritating than anything.<br /><br />Liam: I can't even believe that level of sexism still exists in our culture. By which I means science fiction fans. Do ppl learn nothing from the heroes so call themselves fans of?<br /><br />Freddy: Thanks for ensuring the next generation!Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-44147725408672023682014-11-28T07:22:50.733-04:002014-11-28T07:22:50.733-04:00I sat and watched this (as I did for most of the s...I sat and watched this (as I did for most of the season) with my nine year old son. The cyber-brig thing I saw coming moments before it was introduced, and I exclaimed "Oh no", as I felt it was almost desecration of Nicolas Courtneys memory.<br />But once they went for it, and the Doctor saluted, I started to cry. A forty three year old man, hugging his nine year old son as he cried at a kids tv show, something no other program ever has managed. I thought it was incredibly moving and totally respectful of the characters.<br /><br />My son was also hugely impressed, he's a massive fan of Doctor Who (our house is populated by endless numbers of Daleks), and he's watched my DVD collection of everything from Unearthly Child through to Survival. And although he's not a massive fan of the Pertwee era, he loves Battlefield, so was amazed and impressed they brought the Brig back.<br /><br />We're well impressed with Capaldi (my son gives him bonus points for being Scottish), and apart from the Forest episode, were hugely impressed with this season. Roll on Christmas, we can't wait for more.Freddynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-19735957060780200582014-11-28T07:17:50.155-04:002014-11-28T07:17:50.155-04:00I'm looking forward to the Doctor Who Monthly ...I'm looking forward to the Doctor Who Monthly review of the episode ratings. If the internet is to be believed, the rating should fall off a cliff due to the number of people refusing to watch the show any more after the "gender-bending" of the Master and the anticipation that they will do that to the Doctor and so Ruin Things Forever! (My favourite comment? "If the Doctor becomes a woman will he be called the Nurse?" I'm amazed that they had the internet back in 1896.)LiamKavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01996095233681105682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-23982820853235020872014-11-28T06:34:40.861-04:002014-11-28T06:34:40.861-04:00I enjoyed this one. It was the big bang series-end...I enjoyed this one. It was the big bang series-ender that we've come to expect from New Who, and for that I'm more forgiving of its faults. It feels very much like a love letter to RTD and his Big Ridiculous Events, damn the consequences just throw everything at the wall and go mental.<br /><br />I actually liked the return of the Brig, and I agree 100% with Marty- the idea he was sat there stoically in the Nethersphere completely resistant to Seb's wheedling and cajoling and not buying any of it is great. As is the idea that it's the Brig being the one to kill the Master considering the history between the two (even though there's no way she's actually dead). Good luck convincing the Brig to feel guilty about who he had to sacrifice to save the planet over the years.Madeleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-78395331488185161852014-11-28T03:05:07.068-04:002014-11-28T03:05:07.068-04:00Something I felt was missing was an explanation of...Something I felt was missing was an explanation of how the Master lived and came back. I feel like S/He was trapped in the nethersphere until the Doctor entered. <br /><br />If the bracelet can recreate matter that explains how he'd get a new body. That worked for the Kid.<br /><br />Are the machines even turned off yet or are they collecting the dead?JeffJedihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06396911383619760117noreply@blogger.com