tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post5962934240456148205..comments2024-03-27T08:49:38.786-03:00Comments on Siskoid's Blog of Geekery: Top 10 New GodsSiskoidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-20485997384756449672016-04-20T00:41:13.382-03:002016-04-20T00:41:13.382-03:00I doubt she deserves a spot in the top ten, but I ...I doubt she deserves a spot in the top ten, but I do have a soft spot for Gilotina's story arc in the 90's Super-books. Fired by the Furies for incompetence, she starts hanging out with the Newsboy Legion at Project Cadmus--and Tommy in particular. Then, despite enjoying all that life on Earth has to offer, she realizes she'll never fit in and returns to duty when the opportunity presents itself. Either a tragic contrast to the many who reject Darkseid's world given the chance, or Karl Kesel (co-creater of Knockout, btw) putting the toys back in the box when he was done with them. <br /><br />Either way, it was nicely done.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06382811944483828955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-3419021823208987232016-04-19T16:07:06.463-03:002016-04-19T16:07:06.463-03:00Good list, though I'd rank Forager a bit highe...Good list, though I'd rank Forager a bit higher, myself. I first encountered the characters in the mid-70s revival, rather than the Kirby originals. Forager was one of the characters that was well handled by Gerry Conway and I loved Don Newton's artwork in the scene where Forager infiltrates "The Project," as The Cadmus Project was then known. Unfortunately, the noble Forager was sacrificed by Jim Starlin so we didn't get to see more of the character.<br /><br />I have to confess I have a greater fondness for the Mister Miracle characters than the New Gods characters. On the villain front, I would add Vermin Vunderbar, Kirby's satire of German militarism. I especially enjoyed seeing him in JLU, voiced by Arte Johnson, in a nod to his Laugh-In German soldier character (right up to "Very interesting...."). Those guys did a fantastic job with the 4th World, in that cartoon series.<br /><br />The other character I would add to the list is Steppenwolf. That was a truly great character!Jeff Nettletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16525003344109418240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-19749667709627849242016-04-18T17:13:22.780-03:002016-04-18T17:13:22.780-03:00Exactly. The common man doesn't see Darkseid c...Exactly. The common man doesn't see Darkseid causing Man of Steel-level mayhem in the distance. His life is instead impacted by Intergang's operations.<br /><br />Darkseid is the Devil of this mythos, and his influence is corruptive, not apocalyptic, no matter where he hails from.<br /><br />The beginning of the end for me was The Death of the New Gods/Countdown (both of which were uncoordinated hit squads against the Fourth World), and while Morrison tried to walk us back from those events by creating the concept of avatars for the New Gods on Earth in 7 Soldiers, no one picked up the baton. Didn't dislike the New Gods seen in N52 Wonder Woman, but that didn't amount to much before the reigns were given over to the Finches.Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-50617573429722272832016-04-18T16:55:38.166-03:002016-04-18T16:55:38.166-03:00Jack Kirby's Vision of Darkseid was very diffe...Jack Kirby's Vision of Darkseid was very different from the Darkseid Geoff John's presented in the pages of the New 52 JLA some five years back.<br />Kirby's Darkseid would never have entered the battle himself. Kirby's Darkseid ran the show from behind the scenes and made very liberal use of minions and various front organizations like Earthly amusement parks, television news channels and crime organizations, much like how the internet conspiracy promoted 'illuminati" run the world from behind the scenes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-11033540438565212292016-04-18T13:12:35.907-03:002016-04-18T13:12:35.907-03:00True, I'm speaking to how the characters have ...True, I'm speaking to how the characters have been used lately, not how they were intended. Fair enough, I sure wouldn't like Superman if all I had to go on was how he's been typically handled in the nu52 either.<br /><br />I do like the idea of Darkseid as a guy who tries to bring out the worst in people, though, and that is straight out of Kirby. It's his successors who have basically used Darkseid as somebody Superman has to punch multiple times.<br /><br />Hypothetically speaking, can one completely separate a character concept from the character handling? I say this as a Hal Jordan fan, and there aren't many characters who have been more routinely abused than Hal -- yet I still like him for the times he's done well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-35401306209367767622016-04-18T12:36:41.434-03:002016-04-18T12:36:41.434-03:00Thanks for including Knockout!Thanks for including Knockout!Tony Laplumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07854455859399339169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-37134907653447318652016-04-18T11:05:09.433-03:002016-04-18T11:05:09.433-03:00Anon: You certain do. Just because the characters ...Anon: You certain do. Just because the characters haven't been used well in some years is no mark against them as concepts. After all, some would argue that very few DC characters have been used well in the past few years ;).<br /><br />Ryan: I'm only partway through the Omnibi myself, and really need to get back to them. Recommended reading for a richer appreciation of the Fourth World on this very blog: <br />http://siskoid.blogspot.ca/2008/01/belated-testament-of-jack-kirby.html<br /><br />and in some respect the follow-up: <br />http://siskoid.blogspot.ca/2008/01/comics-alchemy-silver-into-bronze.html<br /><br />I'm tooting my own horn here, but I really do think they are among the best things I've written for the blog.Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-84517358373107747222016-04-18T10:40:23.048-03:002016-04-18T10:40:23.048-03:00Great list, Siskoid!
For the longest time, I kept...Great list, Siskoid!<br /><br />For the longest time, I kept the Fourth World/New Gods characters at an arm's distance. The idea seemed too big and too deep, and I just didn't have the time to fully immerse myself in this corner of the DC Universe. Well, I finally started... just started... and I love it so much. I've only read a handful of Kirby's original MR. MIRACLE book, but they're incredible. Most of my knowledge of Forage comes from COSMIC ODYSSEY, which I mostly enjoyed. I recently acquired the entire '90s NEW GODS series for free. Haven't read them yet, but I'm looking forward to diving into that when I have the time after Secret Origins Podcast wraps up.Count Drunkulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18130778855882160092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-79736294581957982522016-04-18T08:53:09.944-03:002016-04-18T08:53:09.944-03:00I find it impossible to like the New Gods, primari...I find it impossible to like the New Gods, primarily because of how they are used. There was a time when they didn't much interact with the DC Universe, and that's how it should be: they operate on a different plane altogether, good and evil at stalemate with earth on the periphery of the conflict. Unfortunately, there has been this tendency to make Darkseid THE Big Bad of the DC Universe, just as you say. That poses a big structural problem, really a multitude of them:<br /><br />- So long as he exists and routinely interacts with the DC Universe, he is unfinished business and we are all f-ing doomed. See Earth-2 in the nu52; that's what happens when Darkseid gets around to giving the world his full attention. After all, if he's probably slightly more powerful than Superman, and with all his minions in tow, the earth has no hope. Unless ...<br /><br />- ... the heroes DO fight him and win. For example, Batman recently harrowed Apokolips and managed to beat Darkseid; he was equipped with the best technology and materials this universe could offer plus a crystal from Apokolips, but nevertheless he did win. What does it do for Darkseid's reputation as the ultimate Big Bad if a trust-fund furry can beat him? What does that do to his regime of despair? I imagine the Hunger Dogs have started scratching bat symbols on the walls of their hovels as signs of hope.<br /><br />- Why hasn't Darkseid taken revenge on Batman? That's a big hanging plot thread that nobody wants to address. But that's the sort of consequence that should matter when you take up arms against Darkseid.<br /><br />- Then there's the New Gods ... they're too often written as complete tools. They were recently in a big crossover with the GLC where they killed billions because, as a benign force, they generate no conflict. And they weren't under the influence of yellow space bugs or any of Darkseid's despair schemes (which would have actually fixed the story), they were just being terrible until Hal said to them: "Hey! Quit being jerks! Nobody wants you to be jerks!"<br /><br />Win or lose, putting Darkseid in conflict with the heroes just makes everything worse. The proper role of the New Gods is to answer the question of why Darkseid doesn't take more direct action, and the proper use of Darkseid is to CORRUPT mankind so that this world will someday welcome Darkseid. That means subtle mind games that try to bring out the worst in human nature.<br /><br />I got opinions!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37940560.post-59901613952307062922016-04-18T07:05:49.933-03:002016-04-18T07:05:49.933-03:00I liked Lonar when I first met him in the pages of...I liked Lonar when I first met him in the pages of Warlord, but he tends to be a second Orion outside of a fantasy setting.American Hawkmannoreply@blogger.com