"Accomplishments"
At home: 15+ years of mishandling the Fantastic Four in movies has really destroyed their cred with with general audiences, and it really starts with the 2005 movie. Is it that bad? Well, yes and no. It did manage to spawn a sequel after all. I would say its greatest sin how it decides to do Doctor Doom. Here we have the Marvel Universe's best villain and still they decide to toy around with the concept. He eventually LOOKS like Doom, but he's no Doom. Before he has powers, he's Lex Luthor, and after he does, he's merely a physical threat. It lacks the necessary grandeur (the Marco Polo scene is a low point). Otherwise, the cast isn't bad, but more than an hour in, characters are still trying to figure out what their powers are and we're a long way away from the superhero plot. Mostly, the FF fight among themselves. Normally, I don't like them doubling up on villains, but if Doom is going to take his time showing up, why not throw Mole Man into the mix? As is, the team gets applause mostly for solving problems they themselves caused (the bit on the bridge where they make Sue undress so she can... what exactly?). Still early days for superhero movies, and though it's bright and colorful, you can still feel the film makers' malaise about the source material. 40+ years of comics can't have been wrong, guys.
I'll tell you why Galactus is a big cloud in Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. It's for the same reason its Doctor Doom is the most boring ever. This is a movie franchise that, like a lot of pre-MCU superhero fare, is ashamed of its comic book sources. So there's a dull effort to make it work within a kind of "logic" the presumptive audience will understand. That's why there's a media circus, why the Torch is trying to get sponsors, why Doom can't just have built an armor and communed with the devil, etc. At the same time, they don't seem to mind all the bad hair pieces. And for all that, it's a better film that the original. The wedding stuff is slightly impaired by Ioan Gruffudd being a terribly off-model Reed Richards (Jessica Alba is an odd choice for Sue, but at least I like her), but Johnny's coming of age is a good bit (if undermined by the contrived power-switch subplot). There's far less faffing about and the action set pieces are generally good. It won't win any awards - I keep qualifying my compliments, as you can see - but it's reasonable. What I think fans resent about these failed films (and I can say the same about the X-Men's two tried at the Dark Phoenix Saga) is that they hurt those classic stories' chances of making it intact to the big screen. The MCU treatment could definitely do them justice (like, how is the whole bit with the Ultimate Nullifier not more interesting than having the Silver Surfer somehow have the power to kill Galactus all along?!), but by then audiences might say "this again?!".
You can't make me believe they went back to the comics when conceiving of 2015's Fantastic Four (mockingly called Fant4stic). It's clearly an adaptation of the failed movies - a Doctor Doom with powers and a boner for Sue, lots of faffing about with the origin, etc. - and like a game of Chinese whispers, we're getting further and further away from what the FF ARE and SHOULD BE. Basically, they've looked at the previous films and thought the problem was that they were too silly and unrealistic, but one of the problems in FF 1 and 2 was that they were ashamed of their comic book origins and tried to "logic it up". This one's even worse. What if the FF were teenage X-Men and Doom was emo Kylo Ren, in a world of murky grunge, dull REALISTIC aesthetics and almost no superheroics (though lots of people saying "shit"). They hang around at the school for gifted youngsters. Then some of them get turned into military weapons. I swear, if Doom is the villain (as opposed to, say, the scriptwriter), he shows up with his undefined powers at 1h18 to initiate ye olde sky laser, and it's all over 11 minutes later! The foursome are a team for a lot less than that, and never get to wear the uniform at any point. That'd be fine if only they had personalities, but no, the movie forgets to give them that too. Now, I was all in with the trip to another dimension as the spark for their powers - the original was a space race story that needs be updated - but that's where you bring in the Negative Zone and Annihilus and lots of asteroids and Kirby tech. But you have to be unashamed of the source material to do that. When you are, you give us a dead lump like this.
Roger Corman's unreleased 1994 Fantastic Four - sorry, THE Fantastic Four - is cheap and looks like a failed television pilot of its era, but cheapness does not necessarily mean bad. I mean, this version of Doctor Doom is much closer to the comics' than any of the later films' attempts (Shakespeare references and all). But there's very little behind the mask, and that's really my biggest criticism of what might otherwise have been a somewhat charming cheese-fest. The characterization is simplistic in the extreme, which perhaps goes with some of the wooden acting, but this kind of material is why some movie studios keep insisting on ignoring the comics as silly and for kids. It definitely wants to be of a stripe with Batman '66, dutch angles and all, and at its best comes off as one of those live action Ninja Turtle movies. At its WORST, well, there's the baffling inclusion of the Jeweler, an original villain who might as well have been Mole Man, who seems to be the leader of the Morlocks or something. He's like something out of a Leprechaun movie. And while I enjoy little fake-outs as to how to show powers on a budget, the full-CG Human Torch scene over-reaches in the worst way. Ultimately, this is silly and pitched at younger kids, except kids today would have higher standards.
Bollywood writ in animation, Bombay Rose expands on an earlier Gitanjali Rao short (TrueLoveStory), though it may lose focus doing so. At the center of the story is a forbidden love between two young people, Kamala and Salim, but we also follow Kamala's little sister Tara to a former Bollywood star's house, an old woman reliving past glories in her mind. Tara also befriends a small deaf-mute street urchin. There's a rose-cam giving us a flower's POV. And then there's the expansion of the story into the city's history itself, with cool transformations of art style as we go into Kamala or Salim's fantasies, based on traditional Indian art, or the old woman's black and white "Golden Age". And the occasional cheesy Bollywood moment too. It's a melancholy film, burning with a slow but bright and colorful flame, and more a portrait of the bustling city of Bombay as it is today, through various characters who dream of better days - past or future - but have been denied them. There's tragedy there, and in a way, I kind of resent the cheesy button at the end, but without it, Bombay Rose would have been too much of a downer.
Comments
I couldn't even get through five minutes of the most recent one.
It's bizarre because I think the classic FF formula would translate to films pretty well. Although I wonder how they'll fit into the MCU. If they do a 60s FF and pull forward, then it treads on both Captains America and Marvel. If they introduce the FF as new characters, then they are hardly "the first family".
If you keep it a space race story, then you might have them leave in a rocket ship in 1961, get lost in a wormhole or pull some relativistic speeds and come back now, changed but alive. Meanwhile, Dr. Doom has been getting older and more bitter in his castle in Latveria. Reed coming back as a successful hero with a bank account that's only accrued interest over the last 60 years activates him.
What is clear MUSTN'T happen is tying Doom into the FF's origin. All these bad films felt it was required and it's probably their biggest problem on a conceptual level. I would even let Doom rest for the first film. The FF have some of the best villains in the MU and almost none of them have been developed.
They also can't be "young hot kids", that divests Mr. Fantastic of his character and makes everyone contemporary to Johnny and so divests him of his.
(Can you tell I'm working on the next Who's Editing? I'm really in that headspace.)
As for Fant4stic? During production, Kate Mara gave an interview where she revealed Trank didn't want the cast reading the comics for inspiration.
For Doom, my first choice probably would have been Mads Mikkelson, but they kind of already wasted him in Doctor Strange, so... I'm not sure who I'd like for that. (But it's gotta be someone impressive, since if they DON'T make him the Big Bad for the rest of the MCU's life, they're doing it wrong; Doom is Marvel's BEST villain, and deserves a better film appearance than he's gotten so far.)
As Ioun Gruffund, I thought he was fine as Reed, in appearance and personality. Were it still 2005, I'd have no problem with him reprising the role, but I don't expect that to happen now. (I'd also have no complaints with bringing back anyone else from those films, although Evans is probably too old for Johnny now, plus that whole "Captain America" thing.)
The Corman move is an odd creature; allegedly, it was thrown together quickly and cheaply just so the rights wouldn't revert back to Marvel, and it's not hard to believe. It feels like, if an attempt was made to actually make a movie intended for release, it could have been decent enough. Maybe not Richard Donner Superman, but not... y'know, The Fantastic Four. (They brought in Roger Corman because he was known for doing movies quickly and cheaply. Amusingly, I believe he's said that the $2 million budget he was given was the highest he'd ever had!)
Not sure how they'll integrate the FF into the MCU. We really don't need another "hero out of time" story, and using the multiverse to introduce characters is going to turn the whole thing into a potentially unsalvageable mess. ("Hey, look, it's the Earth-2 Iron Man! And Captain America! And Thanos! And everyone else we shouldn't have killed off! Not back from the dead, just their exact counterparts from another universe! Plus all the other characters we didn't have the rights to use before! They've all decided to leave their home universe and hang out in this one for... reasons?")
The thing that makes the Fantastic Four interesting isn’t its villains but the dysfunctional family aspects, which all three existing theatrical movies centered around. The real problem is that they all center around one member (Reed) and make sideshows of everyone else. And Reed’s power is inherently ridiculous. It literally can’t look awesome, especially given to a character who otherwise is supposed to be a brilliant scientist.
Basically the problem is that what works in the comics can’t work on film, so this major property does everything it can to pull it off, and can’t. Because as it turns out, even Fantastic Four fans don’t seem to be overly interested in the family elements.
And anyway, I like the movies. I like Trank’s focus on Reed. I love Evans as the Torch, and that whatever else is happening there it’s well worth getting to spend that time with him, as no other superhero in film is that fun without being Deadpool. And Doom is Doom. At least Toby Kebbell has something interesting to do.
If it's gonna be an adventure film, there needs to be adventure. It can't just be a super-powered sitcom. And FF adventures go BIG. There are worlds under the Earth, and in other dimensions, and across space and time. THAT'S an FF adventure. The movies have trouble getting them out of their own bellybuttons.
To your point about Doom, he's a great villain in the comics, but you seem to be describing the movie version. Doom's powers are not ill-defined EXCEPT in the movies. He's just a super-scientist who built an armor and who dabbles in both science and magic. His feet are in both worlds. He's an obsessive type. He scarred his face by trying to reach his mother's soul in hell, then transferred his obsession onto the man he blames for making the experiment fail. He's half Hammer Horror and half Iron Man. And they force him to be Magneto in the movies with Reed as Prof X and look at that, magnetic powers (whut?).
The FF need to stop faffing about with power gags and get real challenges that makes their family dynamic come out IN A CRISIS, where they can actually be a TEAM and not just individuals who, 15 minutes from the end, go hey, let's all use our powers together. They should already have learned that lesson. So yeah, Mole Man's kaiju! Annihilus' bug army in the Negative Zone. Reed being on trial by the cosmic community for not killing Galactus when he had a chance.
I mean, what's the next Endgame? Doom as the new Loki and we're heading for Secret Wars, the Beyonder, Galactus, Doom steals all the big B's power, all that crazy jazz. We need the FF and their villains to be bigger than life!
I think the whole bit where the heroes must fight Dr. Doom in a physical contest is all wrong. He should be setting things into motion and the heroes have to resolve it. He goes "bah" and returns to Castle Doom to brood.