(Containing spoilers for both The Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone.)
If you've been reading along with this blog's Series 5 Doctor Who reviews, then you've been waiting more than two weeks for my analysis of The Time of Angels (and now Flesh and Stone). Truth is, I'm not sure what to say because these episodes have been truly MADDENING. Moffat is clearly having fun with the mystery that is River Song, and I'm having just as much fun having my mind screwed with. There's no simple answer to any of it, and possibly there never will be! But before we can even attempt an answer, let's get the personal appreciation out of the way...
I loved it. Some are calling it possibly the best televised Doctor Who story ever, which is of course debatable, but it's way up there. It has the advantage of not unraveling when it comes to production values, which much of the original series' classic stories did, nor fall into the silliness the new series so often dished out. Then again, it can hardly be called a stand-alone story (River, the crack in the universe, the wedding jitters epilogue). Whether the best or not, it has sparkling dialog and performances, mysteries aplenty, comedy derived from the characters and not the situations, a chilling alien threat, lots of tension, actual revelations about the bigger arc, and things that MATTER. From River's mission impossible message to the future to "That's a fairy tale" "Aren't we all?", The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone is wonderful.
The Weeping Angels could have been one-note monsters not worthy of a return visit, but Moffat adds to their mythology. I'm a bit sorry to see them move, because up 'til now, we the television audience have been able to "see" them and stop them from moving, which I thought was a wonderful meta-textual touch. Other than that, excellent moments for all three recurring characters. There has been some grumbling (to put it mildly) that the final scene, in which Amy throws tries to seduce the Doctor has ruined her character (at its mildest, "oh no, haven't we had enough with Rose and Martha?"). I don't agree, or at least, I'm willing to see where it's going. Amy's not in love or even starstruck. She says she's not looking for something long-term. She's only trying to do something to make sure she can't marry Rory. You don't easily walk away from cheating on your wedding night. It's the classic "trying to make HIM break up with ME". Let's not forget that while Amy isn't the "village bicycle" (going by older people's reaction to her), her job as a kissogram definitely marks her as someone who doesn't give a lot of importance to intimate activity.
The Mystery of the Crack
Moffat is moving this along a lot faster than RTD's Bad Wolf Scenario etc., with important reveals even before the half-way point. If there are cracks (or a moving crack), it's because the universe is going to blow, and it happens on 26 of June 2010 - Amy's wedding day AND, amusingly, the date the series finale will air. Cute. More importantly perhaps is the revelation that the crack is consuming parts of history, which is why Amy doesn't remember Canary Wharf of the Stolen Earth, and why there is no record of a giant Cyber-mech stomping through Victorian London. Is Moffat aggressively retconning the RTD era? Will history be restored by the end of the crack arc, or will we be left to wonder if now Rose never left the Estate? (Or as time travelers, companions would be immune to changes in the timeline?)
Even if Moffat is remodeling the Whoniverse "permanently", we can't cry foul like it's the first time it's happened. RTD's Time War is itself a massive retcon, or doesn't remove the Daleks from history create massive and unexplainable changes? "History can be changed" is not something new to Flesh and Stone, it's been with us since the Hartnell era. RTD himself created paradoxes when he had the Daleks come to Earth long before their invasion in 2163. It doesn't even make sense within New Who itself. Why would Henry Van Statten in 2012 not recognize a Dalek and call it a "Metaltron" if the Earth suffered a couple of big Dalek attacks only a few years before? So it's not just the Great and Bountiful Human Empires that shift, it's us too. It doesn't mean the stories never happened, just that the timeline has. Heck, I don't remember planets in the sky either!
But of course the greatest mystery of all is River Song, and since there's no easy answer to that, the SBG presents:
Who or What is River Song: 11 Possibilities
1. A companion we meet in random order. Simplest explanation and a bit obvious. She has traveled with the Doctor and has therefor had lessons in TARDIS piloting and other skills. As an archaeologist, she would have been interested to learn ancient Gallifreyan. After her actual voyages aboard the TARDIS (she says she's traveled in time and could make good crack food), she continued to meet the Doctor(s) in random order and likes to tease him about his lack of knowledge of her past, plays with his head, etc.
2. The Doctor's wife. She acts like they're an old couple, and both Tennant and Moffat call her his wife in the commentary tracks to Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead (which doesn't mean anything). Amy spots it right away, so everything points in that direction, which means it's either a red herring or a reverse-red herring to confound the audience. Both the Doctor and River obfuscate on this point, and the Doctor at least, doesn't actually know for sure.
3. A grifter playing the longest con of all. We know she's capable of criminal acts, and in both her stories, admits to being a liar. If later versions of the Doctor knew her from his past, she may be manipulating his younger self. The relationship hinted at would turn out not to be true at its base, but all we have to go on is her lies and the Doctor accepting them as truths. In time, she may have come to trust him and love him, but it all started with a con.
4. The Doctor's killer. Flesh and Stone strongly hints at the idea that her prison sentence was the result of her killing the Doctor (the best man she's ever known). The Doctor doesn't flinch, but does reflect on the possibility of changing history. First, is he really killed-killed? Or is she just responsible for the death of one incarnation, which doesn't matter to the authorities who don't understand regeneration? Second, does she then spend the rest of her life trying to redeem herself by helping the Doctor, drawing his attention to evil, etc.?
5. A dupe. Maybe she isn't the conwoman, maybe she's been conned. Because Doc10 was the first to meet her and there are theoretically only 13 possible Doctors (though I expect that to be easily undone) and presumably, Moffat won't stay on until Doc13 is killed and yet would want to wrap up his River story, we have to wonder about that "spotter's guide". She's unlikely to meet Pertwee or Troughton, though she may have assembled the guide from historical records (lending more wait to her con) and not been given it. Is it possible that all her Doctors are not THE Doctor and that part of her relationship is with a con man, possibly another Time Lord impersonating the Doctor? She might have married the Meddling Monk, for all we know. In this version of events, River is not lying, but neither is she telling the truth, and still, the Doctor can't know.
6. A paradox. My personal favorite is that the only reason River knows his name (to take one example of her intimacy with the Doctor) is that she told him his name in Silence in the Library. He then felt he had to tell her that name (teach her to fly the TARDIS, give her a sonic screwdriver, etc.) because not doing so would change his personal timeline. Moffat is the king of timey-whimey, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was it. She's a self-fulfilled prophecy.
Now let's get crazier...
7. The Doctor's mum. Calling people "Sweetie" is not something that only spouses do. If the dissenting Time Lady in The End of Time was his mother, then her "being lost, once" might refer to time spent as River Song. People have made something of her wearing a wristwatch (Who fans, you're so kooky!). Possible, though the double-entendres are a bit creepy if it's the case.
8. The Doctor's daughter. And even creepier still if it's a regenerated Georgia Moffat. We don't know if his daughter CAN regenerate, but she has two hearts.
9. Another Time Lord. She can fly the TARDIS and write in Gallifreyan. The watch. The attitude. No inherent creepiness in being someone unrelated by blood. A pretty simple idea really, and one might suppose the Susan's grandmother could be out there if you wanted her to be his wife. Other possibilities include Romana (but why would she hide her identity?) or the Rani (who's turned a new leaf after killing the Doctor then regenerating herself). One Time Lord-related character she cannot be is the Doctor-Donna, since she didn't recognize Donna but had heard of her in Library.
10. The Doctor him/herself. He finally regenerates into a woman (Moffat did this in his Comic Relief Doctor Who special), which may or may not be the "murder" of a good man, and having lost his TARDIS in the same adventure, uses himself to right wrongs... or to rewrite them? His greatest failures undone by his naughty feminine side.
11. The TARDIS. Or a second TARDIS grown from the Doctor's. Sentient TARDISes have been a staple of the Doctor Who novels, and we know she's a "she" with an intimate relationship with the Doctor, like some people have with their cars. Crazy? Or crazy-awesome? I'll let you decide.
Which is YOUR theory?
If you've been reading along with this blog's Series 5 Doctor Who reviews, then you've been waiting more than two weeks for my analysis of The Time of Angels (and now Flesh and Stone). Truth is, I'm not sure what to say because these episodes have been truly MADDENING. Moffat is clearly having fun with the mystery that is River Song, and I'm having just as much fun having my mind screwed with. There's no simple answer to any of it, and possibly there never will be! But before we can even attempt an answer, let's get the personal appreciation out of the way...I loved it. Some are calling it possibly the best televised Doctor Who story ever, which is of course debatable, but it's way up there. It has the advantage of not unraveling when it comes to production values, which much of the original series' classic stories did, nor fall into the silliness the new series so often dished out. Then again, it can hardly be called a stand-alone story (River, the crack in the universe, the wedding jitters epilogue). Whether the best or not, it has sparkling dialog and performances, mysteries aplenty, comedy derived from the characters and not the situations, a chilling alien threat, lots of tension, actual revelations about the bigger arc, and things that MATTER. From River's mission impossible message to the future to "That's a fairy tale" "Aren't we all?", The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone is wonderful.
The Weeping Angels could have been one-note monsters not worthy of a return visit, but Moffat adds to their mythology. I'm a bit sorry to see them move, because up 'til now, we the television audience have been able to "see" them and stop them from moving, which I thought was a wonderful meta-textual touch. Other than that, excellent moments for all three recurring characters. There has been some grumbling (to put it mildly) that the final scene, in which Amy throws tries to seduce the Doctor has ruined her character (at its mildest, "oh no, haven't we had enough with Rose and Martha?"). I don't agree, or at least, I'm willing to see where it's going. Amy's not in love or even starstruck. She says she's not looking for something long-term. She's only trying to do something to make sure she can't marry Rory. You don't easily walk away from cheating on your wedding night. It's the classic "trying to make HIM break up with ME". Let's not forget that while Amy isn't the "village bicycle" (going by older people's reaction to her), her job as a kissogram definitely marks her as someone who doesn't give a lot of importance to intimate activity.The Mystery of the Crack
Moffat is moving this along a lot faster than RTD's Bad Wolf Scenario etc., with important reveals even before the half-way point. If there are cracks (or a moving crack), it's because the universe is going to blow, and it happens on 26 of June 2010 - Amy's wedding day AND, amusingly, the date the series finale will air. Cute. More importantly perhaps is the revelation that the crack is consuming parts of history, which is why Amy doesn't remember Canary Wharf of the Stolen Earth, and why there is no record of a giant Cyber-mech stomping through Victorian London. Is Moffat aggressively retconning the RTD era? Will history be restored by the end of the crack arc, or will we be left to wonder if now Rose never left the Estate? (Or as time travelers, companions would be immune to changes in the timeline?)
Even if Moffat is remodeling the Whoniverse "permanently", we can't cry foul like it's the first time it's happened. RTD's Time War is itself a massive retcon, or doesn't remove the Daleks from history create massive and unexplainable changes? "History can be changed" is not something new to Flesh and Stone, it's been with us since the Hartnell era. RTD himself created paradoxes when he had the Daleks come to Earth long before their invasion in 2163. It doesn't even make sense within New Who itself. Why would Henry Van Statten in 2012 not recognize a Dalek and call it a "Metaltron" if the Earth suffered a couple of big Dalek attacks only a few years before? So it's not just the Great and Bountiful Human Empires that shift, it's us too. It doesn't mean the stories never happened, just that the timeline has. Heck, I don't remember planets in the sky either!
But of course the greatest mystery of all is River Song, and since there's no easy answer to that, the SBG presents:
Who or What is River Song: 11 Possibilities
1. A companion we meet in random order. Simplest explanation and a bit obvious. She has traveled with the Doctor and has therefor had lessons in TARDIS piloting and other skills. As an archaeologist, she would have been interested to learn ancient Gallifreyan. After her actual voyages aboard the TARDIS (she says she's traveled in time and could make good crack food), she continued to meet the Doctor(s) in random order and likes to tease him about his lack of knowledge of her past, plays with his head, etc.2. The Doctor's wife. She acts like they're an old couple, and both Tennant and Moffat call her his wife in the commentary tracks to Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead (which doesn't mean anything). Amy spots it right away, so everything points in that direction, which means it's either a red herring or a reverse-red herring to confound the audience. Both the Doctor and River obfuscate on this point, and the Doctor at least, doesn't actually know for sure.
3. A grifter playing the longest con of all. We know she's capable of criminal acts, and in both her stories, admits to being a liar. If later versions of the Doctor knew her from his past, she may be manipulating his younger self. The relationship hinted at would turn out not to be true at its base, but all we have to go on is her lies and the Doctor accepting them as truths. In time, she may have come to trust him and love him, but it all started with a con.
4. The Doctor's killer. Flesh and Stone strongly hints at the idea that her prison sentence was the result of her killing the Doctor (the best man she's ever known). The Doctor doesn't flinch, but does reflect on the possibility of changing history. First, is he really killed-killed? Or is she just responsible for the death of one incarnation, which doesn't matter to the authorities who don't understand regeneration? Second, does she then spend the rest of her life trying to redeem herself by helping the Doctor, drawing his attention to evil, etc.?
5. A dupe. Maybe she isn't the conwoman, maybe she's been conned. Because Doc10 was the first to meet her and there are theoretically only 13 possible Doctors (though I expect that to be easily undone) and presumably, Moffat won't stay on until Doc13 is killed and yet would want to wrap up his River story, we have to wonder about that "spotter's guide". She's unlikely to meet Pertwee or Troughton, though she may have assembled the guide from historical records (lending more wait to her con) and not been given it. Is it possible that all her Doctors are not THE Doctor and that part of her relationship is with a con man, possibly another Time Lord impersonating the Doctor? She might have married the Meddling Monk, for all we know. In this version of events, River is not lying, but neither is she telling the truth, and still, the Doctor can't know.
6. A paradox. My personal favorite is that the only reason River knows his name (to take one example of her intimacy with the Doctor) is that she told him his name in Silence in the Library. He then felt he had to tell her that name (teach her to fly the TARDIS, give her a sonic screwdriver, etc.) because not doing so would change his personal timeline. Moffat is the king of timey-whimey, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was it. She's a self-fulfilled prophecy.
Now let's get crazier...
7. The Doctor's mum. Calling people "Sweetie" is not something that only spouses do. If the dissenting Time Lady in The End of Time was his mother, then her "being lost, once" might refer to time spent as River Song. People have made something of her wearing a wristwatch (Who fans, you're so kooky!). Possible, though the double-entendres are a bit creepy if it's the case.8. The Doctor's daughter. And even creepier still if it's a regenerated Georgia Moffat. We don't know if his daughter CAN regenerate, but she has two hearts.
9. Another Time Lord. She can fly the TARDIS and write in Gallifreyan. The watch. The attitude. No inherent creepiness in being someone unrelated by blood. A pretty simple idea really, and one might suppose the Susan's grandmother could be out there if you wanted her to be his wife. Other possibilities include Romana (but why would she hide her identity?) or the Rani (who's turned a new leaf after killing the Doctor then regenerating herself). One Time Lord-related character she cannot be is the Doctor-Donna, since she didn't recognize Donna but had heard of her in Library.
10. The Doctor him/herself. He finally regenerates into a woman (Moffat did this in his Comic Relief Doctor Who special), which may or may not be the "murder" of a good man, and having lost his TARDIS in the same adventure, uses himself to right wrongs... or to rewrite them? His greatest failures undone by his naughty feminine side.
11. The TARDIS. Or a second TARDIS grown from the Doctor's. Sentient TARDISes have been a staple of the Doctor Who novels, and we know she's a "she" with an intimate relationship with the Doctor, like some people have with their cars. Crazy? Or crazy-awesome? I'll let you decide.
Which is YOUR theory?
Comments
RTD said the woman from The End Of Time was the Doctor's mum, although it was said on the show, and that's not really a character I'd find interesting anyway. Wife is too obvious.
Love the idea of a sentient TARDIS - it was one of the many great moments in the book Alien Bodies when the humanoid-TARDIS opened up. But I'm sticking with daughter for the moment.
You've made the mistake of confusing the age of the characters with the age of the actors. David Tennant's Doctor would be the older version, compared with Susan's "grandfather". He WOULD, though, be the younger version compared with the Eleventh Doctor.
As much as I love the timey-wimeyness of the Doctor having a grandaughter who then travels with a younger version of himself, I really can't see how it would be Amy's. We have no proof that Time Lords and humans can mate like that, and neither character likes the other "in that way". Amy loves Rory, and this Doctor has made clear that he doesn't agree with centuries old Time Lords dating 20-something humans.
whats far more puzzling is why did she go back to that horrible prison so willingly? Its hard to imagine her being easily captured after the big bang, and why does she stay when she can escape so easily.
We don't know that the Master's dead. There's about 50 ways you could write him back into the show after "The End of Time". And even then, she could be his wife from a different point in the Master's timeline, especially since her whole deal is being constantly on the wrong time-train-tracks with the regulars.
Maybe she went back to the prison because she wanted to serve her time for her crimes, and with no end of universe saving emergency then she's happy to go back?
I think your right about willingly going back, though the way she talked about it in time of angels and the many hinted at attempts at gaining a pardon suggest she'd rather be any place else. I personally think she either helped the Doctor fake his own death and is doing the time to make it look good, or she killed one of his regenerations was locked up for it and is trying to redeem herself. OR....there's something about the Storm Cage Facility regarding the silence, (prisoner 0? I wonder where he was contained?).
The Paradox theory is a pretty good one too and mixes well with several possibilities.
Davros: 'have pity on me.'
Docotor: 'I have pity for you.'
on other occasions he obliterates them without a second thought, the 5th doctor in resurrection of the daleks. a bit hypocritical if he doesn't like the idea of her killing a dalek. Oh and then there's Ace, daleks should be scared of her too.
I think river is like catwoman to the doctors batman, a villain or ex-villain who cares for him and who he cares about and even comes to trust. Making a dalek beg for mercy was awesome though.
I also had a thought...........is river song actually the doctor himself?(herself?), RTD always wanted a female doctor.......however Moffatt although hasnt used a female entirely, he could have the inclusion that the doctor at some point, regenrates into one. Then when the earth reboots, she (he) never existed because she never needed to (she wouldnt have had the need to regenerate) By her saying she killed the best man she had known.......was she talking of her previous male "version"?
just a thought.
However, she doesn't regenerate at the end of the episode. Some of the genesis energy that revitalized the planet came out of her (NOT regeneration energy like we've seen the Doctor breathe out, GREEN not yellow). Her resurrection was just a side-effect of making the planet bloom.
I doubt it would be feasible for the 11th Doctor to regenerate into Alex Kingston and then for the show to keep going. She doesn't have her own TARDIS, etc. Anyway, if you have seen The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang yet, I won't spoil anything, but comments she makes there do not work with the "she's the Doctor" theory.
What if River Song is Miss Hartigan from 'The Next Doctor'.
I was just watching that episode once more, and though she died in the end, there could be plenty of ways to bring her back to life or something.
Then there was the scene where Miss Hartigan says her first name was Mercy. When the Daleks checked their records, they kept saying mercy...of course the Dalek could really be begging for mercy, but who knows maybe he was just calling her by her proper name.
We must also recall Mercy Hartigan was given knowledge of the universe, making her extremely intelligent and with a brilliant mind, just like River Song.
Plus, Mercy Harigan is a villain, and I am gonna bet River Song will be a villainous character turned good when we meet her.
This theory is a hugeeeee long shot, but it was fun thinking about it.
I have a feeling the rose tyler theory might hold true...and the wife theory is too obvious [though they will be married in the end, in my opinion]. Plus, if River Song is Rose, then she most probably married the other doctor in the other world too.
1)She is 'Patience', wife of 'The Other' .
And at some point the doctor breaks the Galifreyan law of not going back in time Lord history. Perhaps he cannot be detected because of the timelock.
He travels to the point in time and realizes he is destined to be the Other. During that time he came to the Galifreyans and meets Rassillon and Omega. He meets a woman who is somehow important. During that time he thinks Rassilon is good but eventually sabotages Omega by hiring the Mercernaries so not to be discovered, the Doctor finds out and because he is the only one who has a TARDIS he and Patience flee in the Tardis, leaving That era of Gallifrey to Rassilon alone who goes on to create the Rassilon Imperitus.
However Patience does not have this because they fled. Although she is Gallifreyan she will never regenerate.
They travel together, writing her Diary, eventually she wishes to leave.
She wants to see the universe and know the universe so she leaves the Doctor and the Doctor knows that he will see her again and sad, because he knows how it will end.
He ends up meeting her in his many future regenerations. Probably because they are so close.
in his last incarnation he pops up, finds he has Daughter, Daughter is Susan, discovers his 11th incarnation trying to protect River Swan and a child he thinks is Just River's
he ends up having to protect her from his enemies and finally understands, he remembers the first place he went in his TARDIS, the Galifreyen space port,
before he takes her, from the year 5124, while the child is very young
girl, the doctors last incarnation is chased by both river and the 11th, both are astonished to see him running into a much more worn TARDIS, but before he gets in River shoots him, the 11th chases into the older TARDIS while the security detains river for Murder
The TARDIS disappears and inside the 2 Doctors fight, the 11th not knowing that he is fighting his last self. The TARDIS Lands which and the doors open.
Allowing Toddler Susan to run away from the fighting. Eventually the youthful 11th is knocked out. the last doctor chases after Susan taking her and fleeing.
11th wakes up and gives pursuit and is horrified to see a dying Doctor giving the toddler to the first doctor. He stays hidden realizing this is a fixed point in time.
As this is a time of civil war the spaceport looks ruined and the Last doctor describes himself as being a casualty, the 1st Doctor takes the Child and asks of her name. THe last doctor says 'Susan'
Exit the first Doctor the 11th approaches the Last and they talk about how last doctor hates it because he remembered it. And remembers being the younger.
Because we see who the woman was, and how the ring is used to bring back the (male) Master in that.
Later resolution of the issues with the Other could be left to later regenerations of the Doctor (and future writers) to resolve. But here's a possible twist. River Song ends her physical life saved in electronic form within the Library -- which would be perfect for retrieving and tossing into the Matrix which eventually produces the Doctor himself. (That, neatly, does not require that it happen for many series yet, right up until the end of the13th doctor, and does not require that Alex herself still be available to play the role.)
River Song could be wife to Omega, wife to the Doctor, and, without yet knowing it or doing anything creepy, ending up as the Doctor's "mother" as well.
Why this idea? In the preface of the BBC ebook Lungbarrow, which supposedly laid out a past "master plan" for the series and sets forth the Other portion of the show's mythology, someone asks what a mother does and asks if they spawn in a RIVER like a SINGfish.
However, Omega is a canonical Big Bad well established before the show revival, and the kind of villain certainly caple of hijacking a TARDIS. Means, motive, and opportunity.
Patience could be MADE canonical by the current writers.
That said, the theory in entangled in stuff regarding The Other, etc. which will not be make it to television. It's just too much for mainstream (and even much of fandom) audiences.
And while Omega might return behind the Silence, that doesn't mean it'll tie into River's identity. It probably wouldn't. The revelations about River have to be satisfying for the audience because they've been sticking with her for more than 2 years. Say the revelation is that she's the reincarnated wife of a classic series baddie just now returned... That's not very satisfying to New Who audiences. Again, intriguing fanfic, but that's not how the series works.
You make very good arguments, but they have another full season to set up Omega, acquaint the new fans with his place in the mythology and the Tine Lords' origins, and set up the reveal of River Song.
I would also note that SM has gone out of his way in 2 of the 13 Matt Smith episodes to get pictures of the first doctor on-screen, not just the ninth or tenth. I think that's a hint as well that the villain lies back in early time Lord history.
For that matter, the Lord of Dreams seems to be a post-racial return of the Crystal Gaurdian ' Toy Master, so I think SM is very interested in reconnecting the eleventh doctor to the whole overarching time lord metaphysics.
Also, "Amelia" is a song with these lyrics:
The drone of flying engines
Is a song so wild and blue
It scrambles time and seasons if it gets thru to you
Then your life becomes a travelogue
Of picture-post-card-charms
Amelia, it was just a false alarm
People will tell you where they’ve gone
They’ll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other’s just come to harm
Oh amelia, it was just a false alarm
I wish that he was here tonight
It’s so hard to obey
His sad request of me to kindly stay away
So this is how I hide the hurt
As the road leads cursed and charmed
I tell amelia, it was just a false alarm
A ghost of aviation
She was swallowed by the sky
Or by the sea, like me she had a dream to fly
Like icarus ascending
On beautiful foolish arms
Amelia, it was just a false alarm
Maybe I’ve never really loved
I guess that is the truth
I’ve spent my whole life in clouds at icy altitude
And looking down on everything
I crashed into his arms
Amelia, it was just a false alarm"
River could be Prisoner Zero.
She also could be in jail for "killing" Jack. Or, is Jack, aka, Face of Bo.
As for the Face of Bo, it survives to the Year 1 billion +.
Rory and the Doctor are more likely to be her victims, I think.
If so, were the toys, books and dolls eventually revealed to be the elements of the Pandorica trap visible in the first ep background of Amy's room somewhere?
Although the consciousness of the Autons built the humans for the Pandorica trap from the toys, is it possible that they also reanimated an element of the Celestial Toymaker himself, since that Big Bad's last appearances in DH involved being trapped in his own toys?
Note that in 'Flesh and Stone' he actually showed you the Doctor talking to Amy after escaping from the Pandorica (Doctor with coat), betting you wouldn't notice.
He also told you River Song's real name in her first two appearances... 'Silence in the Library' and 'Forest of the Dead'... Her real name is Forest Silence. (Silence was in the Library, and then Forest dies and joins the dead spirits).
He is also hinting heavily to her origins, introducing her as 'Doctor' River Song (notice that River Song is an anagram of 'Version GR')(and 'GR' is an abbreviation for the Theory of Relativity regarding 'Time and Space').
Also he has used the word 'angel' in every episode River Song is in: either in the title, or as a character name (Miss Angelista), or a sentence said in the episode.
Silence (Forest Silence aka River Song) will fall... for betraying the Doctor. Because she is the spirit of the Tardis, a Time Lord's ghost that embodied it throught the entire series.
Quote: River Song: [reading the end of the book] "What if we had ideas that could think for themselves? What if one day our dreams no longer needed us? When these things occur and are held to be true, the time will be upon us. The Time of Angels."
Doctor retrieves River Song from the Library archive and downloads her into the Tardis.
Tardis could become sentient, more than an organic technology. River Song infused into the Tardis. The Tardis already is pretty infused into the Doctor on some empathic level. That's why he can now just snap his fingers to open the door.
Honestly, guys and their gadgets. What are you gonna do. Have to just get into gadgets, don't you. DW just gets literal about it.
Sad, very important moment on Doctor Who was when the Tennant one stayed for Christmas dinner with a Dickensian quixotic guy who thought himself to be the Doctor. At the end, The Doctor says he doesn't want a companion because they always break his heart.
So, River Song is the ultimate resolution for the series. I'll enjoy seeing how the "real" canon solves it!!
1)There have been some really obvious allusions to River being the Doctor's wife. But Moffat has also made it very clear, both in interviews and on-screen, that the Doctor is "married to the TARDIS."
2)She can pilot the TARDIS even better than the Doctor (could her joke about the Doctor being "busy that day" not really be a joke at all?)
3) It would explain how she knows Old High Gallifreyan.
4) It would explain how she knows the Doctor's real name.
5) The TARDIS exploding is responsible for the entire universe, and the Doctor, being erased from time. That would certainly explain who she killed.
6) It's worth noting that "River Song" is an odd name for someone who's entirely human. Take that how you wish.
I don't see how no one has thought of that possibility
I thought the "Silence will fall" voice sounded like Davros, personally. I can see no reason why it would be him, but the voice definitely sounded similar.
Of course, this seems to imply that River had never met any incarnation of the Doctor prior to the Tenth. Which begs the question as to exactly which Doctors there are in her book. Since Alex Kingston is aging, they can't really show her opposite the Twentieth Doctor in 30 years time, which is a bit of a shame.
1. She has technical expertise that surpasses the doctor. She fixed the teleporter to save Amy from the Angels when the Doctor said it couldn't be done. She can also pilot the tardis better than the doctor himself.
2. When she received the phonecall from churchill in The Pandorica Opens, she refers to the Tardis as "she." Additionally, the Doctor referred to the new Tardis as "you sexy thing."
3. She can speak and translate high Gallifreyan, the lost language of the Timelords. The Tardis can translate virtually any language, and of course, is a Timelord invention.
4. The only companion that the Doctor has had throughout his regenerations is of course, the Tardis.
5. The Doctor's heart belongs to freedom, the ultimate escape, best exemplified by the Tardis.
6. While being technologically more advanced than the Doctor, River is not as creative or intelligent.
7. River did not understand the cracks in time, something that likely would not be comprehended by the Tardis which is a relative dimension in time and space.
8. River has mentioned that she has dated other technical lifeforms such as androids and Nestenes.
9. River's diary looks like a Tardis.
When Rose and the Doctor(Eccleston) first travel to platform 5 we here that the Face Of Boe is pregnant and then when we first meet River Song she has the exact same squarness gun that Captain Jack had......Just a thought???
It's the Doctor who pulls it out first in an earlier scene. I didn't come from River.
river is amy's and rory's daughter.. ;)
and river is the key..
As per being incarcerated for killing the best man she ever knew. Maybe it's the doctor, maybe she kills Jack in some super-final way so he can stop having to suffer on. Maybe she kills someone else, but in any case, she's clearly choosing to serve her sentence, which implies she's not longterm evil, maybe just wild and evil youth villany.
I like her for the Doctor's wife though. It feels temporary without finality, and she has the fire he so often stops himself from feeling.
Of course, there is a possibility that she kills the Doctor. Let's face it; the Doctor's running out of incarnations. I have a feeling that if she actually DOES kill the Doctor, it will have something to do with getting him more incarnations.
A) River claims that the Doctor taught her how to fly the TARDIS. Romana already knew how, sadly.
B) How on Earth did she survive the Time War? Yes, there is the fob watch thing, but how would she have gotten one?
and
C) Why the big act? Why not go ahead and tell the Doctor?
My idea was that maybe Romana was the one who killed all the Time Lords and not the Doctor, but that's a bit too far-fetched.
On the other hand though, she could have changed from Time Lord to human and hid on Earth. Perhaps she met up with the Doctor while she was in human form and started travelling with him, not knowing who she was or that she already knew the Doctor....
But don't listen to me. I'm sure there are crazier theories out there on the web.
She better not be Rose though. I'm absolutely sick of Rose by this point. Back when I was watching Series 1 & 2, I did like Rose a lot. But by the time they showed David Tennant's last episode, I was throughly sick of her. She's nice and all, but I'm kind of tired of the whole, "Lost Love" thing. Move on Doctor!
If you're working from the whole of Who, then yes, there are many possibilities (from Patience in the novels, to Romana to the Rani to the terrible Zodin). However, I don't think Moffat is playing with the whole of Who. He has a responsibility to today's viewers who, by and large, don't know Classic Who as well as some of us do.
Similarly, RTD played out his story and those characters have been put to rest, and the actors have moved on. Moffat must get out from RTD's shadow, as well as respect the finality of that era. No Rose, then.
From my perspective, River's reveal won't be that she's a returning character (that would harm the character Moffat's created) but rather that we will discover her nature (friend? foe? con artist? time loop? wife? not? living TARDIS? Time Lady? etc.)
I like this theory. Anyone else agree? i will probably see the fault in it in about three days, but until then, it seems very realistic!
She says that he "showed up on her door" and took her somewhere awesome, where he cried(something like that, he obviously knew she was dying). I think this means that they don't liver together in the future nor is she a future companion!
Sometimes I even think she stole the diary from the real Doctor's wife (Susan's grandmother, maybe).
River Song is an archaeologist who studies the Doctor.
The Doctor has always 'run silent', but she writes the book on him, exposing him to wider scrutiny.
At some point in time, people were bound to notice his presence among them, like Clive in 'Rose'.
River is his biographer.
sooo....
My theory: River Song is a personification of the TARDIS’s personality that became real and separated away at some point (possibly the same point she “kills the best man she knows”)…..she is then able to travel off on her own adventures….
Its known that the TARDIS is a living thing,with a deep connection to the doctor. He understands and feels what the TARDIS feels, and there are running jokes of how “intimate” he seems with it ("does he still stroke the TARDIS""Hello, do you want to be alone"),and in the “Ultimate Guide” it was described as his “real lifetime love” (and as a “her”)….She knows what buttons do what (even when the Dr doesn’t – “they’re just…blue…”) and what the noise is when it lands….The interact like as old married couple, which is how he treats the TARDIS anyway...As for River:
Her diary is in the shape of the TARDIS,and she has intimate knowledge of a lot about the Dr…maybe she forgets the detailed.scientific info over time as she becmes less and less like her mechanical self, to explain the information that she DOESN’T know ….
He’s had so many love interests throughout recent years,that I couldn’t understand throwing in another “love that could never be”…how many times do they have to show that ultimately the Dr’s life is a lonely one, every love-interest he has is "true-love," what would separate the love of a future wife from the relationship he had with Sarah Jane or Rose?.... maybe when River came along it started as romantic, but just wasnt the same after she wanted her own travels and ambitions.......
and maybe later she is “Doctor Song” bc of a connection, the way it was “Doctor-Donna” ….Also,it may explain why the TARDIS blew up in The Big Bang and almost destroyed th universe (since supposedly you can not travel in time and come into physical contact with yourself…maybe it took repeated exposures to build upand finally set off a reaction)…
Also,since Rivers supposedly the person he trusts “the most in the universe” I don’t think it would be Amy in another guise (why would he trust her any more than other companions in the same universe..such as Donna,Martha or Sarah Jane)…I’ve read that Amy could be his daughter,and even though he’s said that he had children once,and Genni was his daughter (although she was “generated” and not “born”) and you’d think that the concept had been done to death, maybe she is his daughter with River (still sticking to my theory that “who and what” she is is the TARDIS which would be enough of a spin on Amy being the Doctors offspring that its not completely redundant)..except the River doesn’t seem at all interested in Amy at all. She’s not cold or anything towards her,but she certainly doesn’t interact with her as if they are some combination of mother/daughter/ancestor or alternate forms in anyway. Also not believing that she’s The Master or any incarnation of the Doctor,it would be too creepy with the “my love” and “sweetie” stuff….
it sounds a lot more far-fetched than it actually is, esp considering a show where literally anything at all (ever) can happen...
my theory has kinda changed.. :
Amy's unborn child = little girl in space suit = River Song
Because:
River said she killed a good man(doctor)
she could be that little girl in the spacesuit who kills the doctor in the doctors ''future'')
(eleven is NOT her doctor) (according to River)
Moffat said we would get to see river as a child in a interview.
River is from the future, so.. if you think about it.. amy is older then river. (THINK ABOUT IT)
(Amy is from 1986/1987) (River is from.. the 51st century)
I know theres an episode later where river calls amy 'mother' and lucy saxon was on imdb 'agood man goes to war' but it has been removed as has sydney wade (astronaut girl) playing young lucy saxon ????
HOLES IN MY THEORY...why was there a photo in the orphanage of amy pond holding a baby?
Melody Pond - River Song?
You see what I'm hinting at?
River Song = Melody Pond = Amy and Rorys (and the tardis') daughter and I hope the Doctors Wife.
Someone suggested River Song = Silence Forest which adds a third alias but really it still makes sense- the alien race of the silence praise Amy for "bringing the silence" which must refer to River. The role she plays in the doctors life is still a mystery but I reckon she kills him as a child- at the control of her life support space suit prison, she gets imprisoned because she's a weapon- not for killing the doctor, but she sort of allows it because she regrets being used that way to kill "the best man she's ever known!"
I'm confused though cos that means the bad guys win... Unless, by her later association with the doctor they change time as she gets free before she kills him? The doctor knew where and when he dies so he is probably told by a scared and young melody pond!
The ood tell the doctor that his song will soon come to an end and even though it was a later episode it may have been an earlier time period, thus referring to the death of "his" song Aka sweety/love/wifey?
How did they get a hold of Amy and why are they scared of the doctor (warrior)? Who is that girl he met that virtually gives river her name and where are the gamma forests?
And was that the real Rory or the last centurian Rory who is also a living plastic?
And of course the doctor had kids... He had a granddaughter called Susan and has a clone daughter called Jenny.
My head is spinning! So much to discover! But I really really want to give a huge round of applause and cheers for River song being the doctors best friends daughter!
Did you notice how quick he disappeared after discovering who river was to them? Like he was suddenly afraid of his in-laws?
And I bet river knew the whole time! Smarty pants! Amy was jealous of her own daughter! : p
To answer a couple of your spinning questions: That's the real Rory as there's no evidence that he would be an Auton here. And yes, River knew "the whole time" because the whole time, she was from this story's future. So this had already happened for her.
I fully expect the Doctor to escape his death, most like with a flesh duplicate. Turnabout is fair play.
I think too many people over-thought the River plot, and thats why i've seen so much negative feedback elsewhere. I loved the episode my self. Good writing is not making someting overly complex or bizare or odd, even in doctor who. SM really made the most out this little tid-bit and really hammered home the emotional connection. On the second play through i just loved how much it seemed like River was telling Rory about her birthday trip the way a little girl would tell her dad.
It's sure going to be interesting rewatching River's appearances now. Her first (from our POV) meeting with Amy and Rory now seem particularly suspect(?).
I think river is a bit of a cold fish at times, but she has shown at least concern for her parents safety before both for Amy in Flesh and Stone and Rory in The Impossible Astronaught. Possibly not as much she could have. River will not let her parents (if they really are (i believe her mind you) get in the way of what has to happen. Prior to this moment there was the risk of the doctor sucessfuly saving her before she was turned into a weapon. Before the big bang there was the possibility of Rory and Amy being careful not to concieve in the tardis to ensure their child when they did have one wouldn't be stolen, this would likely mean she wouldn't exist. Of course River could always be a flesh duplicate but I think that's been done to death over the last three episodes.
With that in mind... what do you make of her reply to Rory's comment about there being two doctors; 'now that's a whole different birthday.' again, particularly due to her expression some adults might misinterpret this ;p
When I wondered if some things would be suspect, they were things like River calling Rory "that Roman" in Pandorica, but then, he didn't exist in that reality (yet she did?). Very much open to interpretation of course, which is why it's so good.
Worryingly the bit i think he hinted at was 'I was lying, I'm always lying.'
This raises just as many mind-numbing questions though:
Why lie? what does she gain by lying about her identity (if she lied) to Amy and Rory?
So howcome the girl sews the prayerleaf that translates her name into River Song?
And why does the Tardis tell Rory that the only water in the forest is the River (which she quoted word for word)?
This might give credence to the imposter theory again... i really hope he was just yanking their chain.